H4831 vs h4831sc. which I developed a load for using 60 gr.

H4831 vs h4831sc I've used 55gr of H4831sc with 150gr Posted By: Dirtfarmer Re: Rel 22 vs H4831 - 10/16/18. 52 posts · Joined 2005 Add to quote; Only show this user #1 · Jan 4, 2007. Plus, RL23 has decoppering agent, which H4831 lacks. I used 53gr with a Fed210M primer. There aren't many cartridges that I use it for as I seem always to gravitate to other powders. BTW I'm loading up a 25-06 for 110gr. It is probably safe to say more big game has been taken with H4831 than any other powder. H4350/v-100/H4831 are all a toss up I picked the one in the middle. I have recent manuals that list H4831SC, but don't list H4831. anothergun OP. It’s a near max load. GOOD LUCK AND POST YOUR RESUALTS . Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles H4831 vs H4831SC: Forums Member List Calendar Active Threads: Previous Thread: Next Thread : Print Thread: Hop To : Page 1 of 2 : 1: 2: H4831 vs H4831SC #18688144 08/20/23. Ballistically, this Extreme Extruded powder is the exact copy of H4831. My Hornady book shows the H4831, RL 17 and 19 as some of the recommended powders. Two of the first three shots blew the primers (and printed 4 MOA instead of sub MOA) someth I have both, but have used mostly H4831 and now H4831SC for 35+ years. Jul 18, 2012 #3 Jul 18, 2012 #3 Re: H4831 vs RL17 for . On the other hand, H4831SC has worked real well for me - accurate and consistent. 300 Win Mag and H4831sc - what is your load? Reloader7RM # I shoot 75. KennyA12 Active Member. Jeff_O. Physically, it has a shorter grain size which earned it the SC designation for short cut. S. Replies 74 Views 1K. Posts: 1,264. And the present H4831 and H4831SC result in the same pressures. Re: H4350 & H4831sc for . They are running in the 3050fps range for velocity. UTU, TY&E Service, BNSF. its more temp stable and meters better. H4831 vs H4831SC. Bruce B. Re: . version has less temperature sensitivity and therefore loads developed in summer will still produce nearer same velocity in winter etc. I’m looking at trying H4831SC with the same bullet and also with 124 hammer hunters. 5-284 can't tell the difference between them. Ballistically, this Extreme Extruded From what I understand Hodgdon no longer makes H4831SC, but H4831 is still available. Anyone have an insight if the two are interchangeable? If I remember correctly, the SC (short cut) was introduced to flow better through many Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles H4831 vs. T. Jul 27, 2012; Thread starter #6 P. D. Pigdog. Physically, it has a shorter grain size which earned it the “SC” designation for “short cut. 0gr H4350 and up in . The website shows 64. which I developed a load for using 60 gr. H1000 for 300 Win Mag: Forums Member List Calendar Active Threads: Previous Thread: Next Thread : Print Thread: Hop To : Page 1 of 3 : 1: 2: 3: H4831 vs. H4831sc, but I have noticed a consistent difference in velocities between IMR7828 v. Yes, you can use the same load data for H4831 vs H4831SC, but the SC version may allow you to get a bit more in situations where you are maxing out case volume with the I've not noticed a major difference with H4831 v. I know the H4831SC gives a better load density But I think I have Sooooo, if the recipe that results is H4831 tests within the realm of H4831, then they can label it H4831, OR if it tests with the correct energy density, but burns too slow, then For those who have used both in the same caliber, is there a noticeable difference in speed, accuracy, or POI? I tried H4831sc in my 300 WM but had much better speed and accuracy with H1000. New posts Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles H4831 vs. Jump to Latest I like H4831SC better because it meters very well, but I'm not buying anymore because Reloder 22 works much better for me. I use IMR 4895 in my Garand with 165gr Nosler Ballistic Tips with good accuracy btw I use Fed Mag Rifle Primers in my 06 & 300wm loads. Jun 18, 2013. My 7mm Rem Mag was only shooting 2925fps with 65gr H4831 and 160gr AB in a 26" barrel. I am loading some 100 gr Hornady Interlock BT softpoints for a friend. 815" BTO, at . Oct 17, 2007 34 0. Sep 26, 2019 #1 For those who have used both in the same caliber, is there a noticeable difference in speed, accuracy, or POI? Since Hodgdon now distributes both H4831 and IMR4831, the Hodgdon Load Data site has loads using both that are fired in the same test barrel and listed together with other powders. I've not noticed a major difference with H4831 v. Jan 25, 2008 Did use H4831 with 180 gr bullets several years ago - with impressive accuracy, but modest velocity. Originally Posted by Brad. IMR 4831 is slightly faster burn rate than the hodgdon version, and will use completely different load data as a result. 284win. Has anyone ever used H4831sc with thier 30-06 loads? Thanks 338 win mag . 270 Wby. As far as accuracy, POI, and pressure signs, I have seen no measurable difference. steelydan Discussion starter. Forums. 243 in a long time. I shoot a compressed load of RL26 and it shoots one hole at 100, at 2950 FPS in my creed. Thanks. My favorite load that works well in most rifles is 60g of H4831 or the sc version in Winchester brass using CCI LR BR primers pushing a130g Nosler In other words, IF they say that H4831 and H4831SC are interchangeable, then the variation between H4831 and H4831SC will be no worse than lot A of H4831 and lot B of H4831. Like H4831sc, meter's better. RL26 works well in 6. Minuteman. Since that time Hodgdon H4831SC Powder has become a favorite for cartridges like the 270 Winchester, 25-06 Remington, 280 Remington and 300 Winchester Magnum. Can anyone help??? JT . All very accurate. H4831sc for comparable FPS with the Berger 180gr Hybrid in a 1in9 twist 30" bbl. However even the H4350 seems off by a few grains. My current 4831sc load is 54. So go there, look up your cartridges and bullet types and see how the performance compares between the two canister grade powders and you may also get some idea how it Hi all - I was following a recipe for something called a "Carolina Load" for my 6. Two of the first three shots blew the primers (and printed 4 MOA instead of sub MOA) someth Hodgdon H4831SC Powder is probably safe to say more big game has been taken with H4831 than any other powder. 36 and the Short cut being 0. I'd go with H4831. 3 sd 8. Use the data interchangeably. The two hodgdon powders are exactly the same burn rate, with the SC variant just being a shorter cut of the same powder. I use IMR 4831 in my 06's and 300wm,none of the mule deer noticed any difference in velocity from warm to cold temps they all died from the trauma of a 165gr or 180gr bullet. As I understand it they are both the same powder but sc grains are just shorter for easier measuring. NBTs or Hornady VMax, but have a limited supply of Varget, and a lot more available H4831SC. Buy American, it may be your own job you are saving. Jump to Latest 21K views 7 replies 7 participants last post by unclenick Jan 5, 2007. 5x284's is Retumbo. Jump to Latest 3. Share: Facebook Pinterest Email Link. ? I'm looking to hit @2775 FPS. or longer before Dupont made IMR 4831. H1000 gave me the worst grouping and velocity compared to Reloader 22 and Hodgdon 4831SC. rogn. H4831SC Powder available in stock now. I will be hunting in -10 to 50 deg F. While H4831 filled the case a bit more(not 100%) it made no difference in accuracy, velocity, or ES. hoosiergc; Mar 27, 2007; Reloading Forum (All For those of you that have used H4831 SC, are there any reasons not to switch from H4831 to the SC? It looks on paper to be a Home. 005" Jump, bullet a little high in the neck, but 2780 FPS on MagnetoSpeed, and about 1/2" 3 shot groups. I have a few questions. I'd go with that. Oct 30, 2004 24,519 3,745. 5gr 3171fps es 49 sd 23. 0 grs. The shorter, more compact kernels enable the powder to flow more H4831 is an extruded powder in Hodgdons Extreme series and it is probably safe to say more big-game animals have been taken by handloaders with H4831 than any other powder. 5x284 several years ago. Anybody have any luck with H4831SC in 300 win mag? Search. 5CM, except I wanted to use H4831 instead of the H4831SC that was suggested. loads almost exclusively, because that is what the rifles shoot the best. I started at 62. There is no way Bruce Hodgdon pulled down IMR 4831 to make H4831. The second graph down shows velocity change between 0-125 Degrees F including H4831SC and RL22. Wetter'n Oregon. Hodgdon was the first supplier to introduce this popular propellant in 1950 and, since that time, it has become a favorite for cartridges like the 270 Winchester, 25-06 H4831sc The accuracy load listed in you screen shot is H4350. 3368 posts · Joined 2014 Add to quote; Only show this user #1 · Dec 18, 2015. 130 grain IMR4831 vs H4831. Antelope_Sniper Handloader. ) The other factor these days is whether another 50-100 fps of muzzle velocity makes all that much difference. Thread starter johnvic; Start date Jun 9, 2007; johnvic. If one can believe the hype the H4831SC-Ext. Load came with the rifle. 5-284 Norma. Don't be shy of RL26 in the creed. The original is 0. H1000 for 300 Win Mag: Forums Member List Calendar Active Threads: Previous Thread: Next Thread : Print Thread: Hop To : Page 3 of 3 : 1: 2: 3: H4831sc 78gr 3109fps es 20. Lately I've been alternating with RL-22, get greater accuracy and velocity in my rifle. Two of the first three shots blew the primers (and printed 4 MOA instead of sub MOA) someth H4350 vs H4831SC heat potential. Aug 16, 2012 #2 A. Will the H4831SC do just as good? I have powder in stock for all but the H4831. Had anyone seen a major difference between H4831 and H4831sc. Switched to RL 23, my 270 shoots 3000fps, my 7mm Rem mag shoots 3100fps (shot this load in 3 different 7 mags). Jul 16, 2014 #11 H4831 was around or 20 yrs. I honestly had to look to see if I even had the non-SC type anymore because SC is so readily available it's what I've stocked up on. Their I started with H4831 years ago and switched to H4831SC for my 270. Apr 5, 2016. Hodgdon Powder offers the largest selection of quality smokeless propellants for any reloading application. I still have a few lbs of H1000 sitting on the shelf collecting dust. My only concern were the SD's were a little higher than I wanted. The loads developed from these powders will be used for hunting, if that makes any difference to you. H4831SC is suitable for a wide range of cartridges, including popular choices like . ” Hodgdon was the first In terms of ballistics, this Extreme Extruded powder – Hodgdon H4831SC Powder is a carbon replica of H4831. I shoot 55 gr. Elkbane; Jun 18, 2013; Reloading Forum (All Calibers) Replies 6 Views 8,302. Reply. Regards, Guy . I have had good success with a Varget load and 55 gr. I loaded up some 5 shot test loads of both H1000 and H4831SC heres what I found: H1000 I have a great shooting . Thread starter Pigdog; Start date Jul 29, 2017; Pigdog. What's new. I found Retumbo and Magnum to be better with 107 SMK in my 26 inch barrels than the H4831 SC, but the H4831SC was still no slouch!! IMR 7828 is also a sleeper powder for . Two of the first three shots blew the primers (and printed 4 MOA instead of sub MOA) someth I like slower powders than H4350. Originally Posted by Mule Deer. I've also read the new H4831 is a little slower than the original surplus - which might explain it also. 2gr=2800 FPS. 270 Win. The shorter, more compact kernels allow the powder to flow through the powder measures more smoothly, helping to alleviate the constant For H4831SC, this Extreme extruded powder is the exact ballistic copy of H4831. Physically, it has a shorter grain size which earned it the "SC" designation for "short cut. My probable starting load is 50. 5 grs and worked up to 56. 5CM. Accubonds and 90 gr Sierra HP's. Any recommendations on where to start vs expect a Other current sources (including Hodgdon) list 60-62 grains of H4831 as max for 130-grain bullets. 5 gr of H1000 & 127 LRX. If it matter, it's a Lilja 3 groove carbon wrapped 1:9 twist Hornady 166gr A-Tips I've used H4831 (and H4831SC), and I use it. Search titles only H4831 vs H4831SC "Carolina Load" 6. 4K views 9 replies 5 participants last post by locutus Dec 19, 2015. 9 sd 12. This is my first time reloading anything, and I don't yet know a H4831SC Powder is available in stock in 1 lb and 8 lb containers. 5x55SE and a 7mm Rem Mag and both brands are equally available in my area. It does meter better though! This is ultimately my gun for shooting with a local long range shooting club and I have been acquiring components to reload and I am currently stuck on deciding between Hodgdon's H1000 and H4831/H4831SC powders to put under a 168 grain Nosler Accubond LR bullet in Nosler brass with CCI LR Magnum primers. Joined: Apr 2007. However, I can't say that it doesn't work. 270 Winchester. Jun 9, 2007 #1 I'm new to long range loading, is there a difference between these two powders? I have some IMR4831 but can't find any load data for it on 6. My pet load for my 6. Senator H1000 vs H4831. Around here, Hodgon powder cheaper than Reloader powder. I'll probably stick to that, but I just want to be able to cross reference data with the H4831 if I need to. Hello, Just starting to reload this year I know the H4831 vs H4831sc Guns & Ammo Discussion : Alberta Outdoors Forum > Main Category > Guns & Ammo Discussion: H4831 vs H4831sc User Name: Remember Me? Password: Register: FAQ: Sponsor Forums: Calendar I'm also working up a load for a another caliber right now and have been getting very consistent velocity and accuracy with H4350 compared to IMR 4350. These powders will be used in a 6. Here is my 270 load with H4831SC. Would RL23 still be the best choice for a 22" or should I go with H4831SC? RL23 is slower on the burn chart. JD338 H4831 vs. Two of the first three shots blew the primers (and printed 4 MOA instead of sub MOA) someth H4831 and H4831SC are the same exact powder, same burn rate. I would imagine the additional surface area has an effect on burn rate. pills and up. Posts: 32,312. I just started into H4831 and H4831sc and found the later powder couldn't be used in the same weight as the previous. I was looking on the temperature sensitivity chart and noticed these two versions being different in temp stability value fps/F. 1g with 162gr ELD-M bullets and Federal LRMag primers and shot them from a Proof 24" new barrel. If you absolutely must use one powder for all then H4831 would probably be it but you will significantly reduce your barrel life in the 300 and 338 by using a faster powder. 4 RE22 77gr 3116fps es 33. The shorter, more compact kernels allow the powder to flow through the powder measures more smoothly, helping to alleviate the constant cutting of granules. ) Vihtavuori N530 4100 kJ/kg eg H4831 original and H4831sc which have somehow squared this circle so well that ADI and Hodgdon quote identical loads data for the pair. My velocities topped out at 2920 fps. Share: Facebook X H4831sc vs. H4831 is made in Australia by ADI which is now owned by a French company, IMR4831 is made in Canada and is now owned by General Dynamics Weapons division. I sure miss H-450, my 270 loved that stuff. Not sure I understand why the make both if they are the same! Mar 7, 2020 #33 6mm Remington Well-known member. I loaded up some new ADG brass for my 7PRC with H4831SC. K. Here's a link from Hodgdon's website. Two of the first three shots blew the primers (and printed 4 MOA instead of sub MOA) someth. 6 Nosler PAR Smith was suggesting H4831SC for it's burn rate in shorter barrels. I've been using H4831 for many years in my . It has a smaller grain size, thus the label SC, or short cut. Jan 18, 2009 #3 FOTIS Range Officer. Imr 4831 Vs H4831. ddavis Sergeant. Full Member. Compressed loads are very accurate most of the time. H4831 vs H4831SC in a 300 WSM IMR7828 vs IMR7828SSC in Weatherby Magnums . H4831 vs 4831 SC Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting : The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > I started with H4831 years ago and switched to H4831SC for my 270. May 26, 2011 1,372 238 Texas. 5 PRC. h4831 is produced by ADI for Hodgdon, ADI powders are very temperature stable so your point of impact should not alter. Staff member. tinbucket Discussion starter. supercorndogs Ham Fisted Gorilla. If you can find the H4831 or H4831SC then get it. Bruce Hodgdon was the first supplier to introduce this popular burning rate in 1950. I loaded some duplicate loads last winter using H4831, and took them to the range. There may be slight differences in actual burn rate, but it's dramatically less than the lot-to-lot variation for the powder overall (for any powder). IMHO the Hodgdon extreme powders are some of the best produced, hands down. I have a great shooting . I'm just looking for any tips on this. bsumoba; Apr 3, 2016; Reloading Forum (All Calibers) Replies 5 Views 970. Welcome to the forum! Kick back and enjoy! Jan 18, 2009 #4 RiverRider Is the rule of thumb roughly 3 grains less of H4350 vs. R22 will give you more speed, but H4831 works darn well in the 300 with 165-200grn pills as well. I wasn't finding info on short 22" 280AI with RL23 in my searches. Bruce “B. New posts Search forums. If the rifle will shoot H4831 or H4831SC well, I'd just stop and call the search over One key difference between old H4831 and New H4831 SC "EXTream" line of powders is not burn rate particularily (close enough match) But the manufacturing process. Joined: Apr 2012. I compared H4831 to H4831sc in my 6. Two of the first three shots blew the primers (and printed 4 MOA instead of sub MOA) someth I used H4831 in magnum cases for years as it was predictable in regards to pressure and easy to get consistent velocities. H4831: Understanding the Difference. The difference is in the size if the extruded powder, SC stands for Short Cut. h4831sc just doesn't do the job in the creed for me. H4831 vs H4831SC in a 284 Shehane. 2 gr. . H4831. I haven't used H4350 in . 284 Win for accuracy H4831 vs RL17 for . It is just that some other powders work better for a given cartridge. In terms of ballistics, this Extreme Extruded powder – Hodgdon H4831SC Powder is a carbon replica of H4831. H4831 and H4831SC are the same exact powder, same burn rate. 5x284, I find h4831sc is a lot more accurate just not as fast in the Norma. E. H1000 for 300 Win Mag #2240037 06/05/08. 22-250. A few great folks on this site have offered up 1 pounders of 555 to me recently, but I’d hate to start testing with only 1lb and then end up liking it and having to find more H4831SC is an Extreme extruded powder and the exact ballistic copy of H4831. I’m still in search of a larger jug of N555 to test for my . I know H4350 is the preferred from these, but my reloading books all include H4831 or sc for heavier bullets. Joined I'm looking at H4831 and H4831SC cans side by side and the load data on them is identical, so Hodgon thinks they're the same thing. Hodgdon H4831 Smokeless Powder 1 Lb by HODGDON , IMR & WINCHESTER. 223 and . Id rock that IMR 4831 without hesitation. 5 cm and 6. My 6. Re: H4350 or H4831 for 270 Win. Physically, it has a shorter grain size, therefore, the designation SC or short cut. 3gr increments. The shorter, more compact kernels enable the powder to flow more freely through the powder measures, reducing the need for frequent granule cutting. 243. You may test a bottle of each and find variation, but if you tested many different lots of each, you would find that they averaged out to be the same. Groups were good all the way from my source for H 1000 data is evidently in an older reload manual I have the amount was 80 grains I believe Checking Steve Riccardelli's site, the load for a 200 grain bullet in the 300 Win Mag is 80 grainswith a large rifle primer you are looking at less pressure than with a mag primer. 2gr of H4831 should yield 3,018fps. JD338 . So, I'm interested in looking at a Hodgdon powder for my 270. I started at 53. Silver $$ Contributor. IMR 4831 VS H4831SC. Thread starter DannoBoone; Start date Sep 26, 2019; DannoBoone Active member. Can data for H4831 and 4831SC be interchanged? Thanks. 5-280 AI has a decent almost max load With 62. While both H4831 and H4831SC are extruded powders designed for similar applications, the primary distinction lies in their grain size. I didn't hit any pressure, and I am pretty sure I could move up a little with my powder charges. 348 Post by big bear » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:49 am 66gr H4831sc,Hornady 200gr bullet, works well in my 71,accurate and does job on black bear so far. This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by the generous contributions of members. 270 Winchester, 25-06 Remington, 280 Remington and 300 Winchester Magnum, 7mm Remington Magnum, and . Nov 27, 2024. Joined May 9, 2011 Messages 26 Location Oregon. Shaggy357. of H4831sc pushing a 130 gr. What one will do the other will do, except SC will go through a H4831SC powder now in stock. supercorndogs. Finding triple nickel is far harder than finder H4350 or H4831SC (both of which seem quite easy to find online recently. Looking for anyone with experience with loading H4831SC in small calibers, such as the . I'm working up a load for hunting whitetail I'd run H4831 or H4831sc for 260 and H1000 for the other two. T Evidently, the shorter sticks makes it burn faster. H4831SC’s shorter grain size not only facilitates better metering but also contributes to a more uniform burn rate, enhancing the shooter’s ability to achieve consistent velocities and, by extension, more Start at 73 and see what you get. H4831 is an extruded powder in Hodgdon’s Extreme series and it is probably safe to say more big-game animals have been taken by handloaders with H4831 than any other powder. Feb 17, 2014 14,692 20,206 H4831SC - 64g - 2850fps IMR 7828 - 66g - 2800fps My problem is Im loading and shooting now at 70 - 80 deg F. Jul 29, 2017 #1 Make Product Potential 1. Posted By: chamois Re: Rel 22 vs H4831 - 10/18/18. yo-yo; Nov 15, 2024; Reloading Depot 2. Loading upto this point meant the sound of crunch crunch crunching of powder (nerve racking to say the least) So with a suggestion of H4831SC I set out to see what it would do. H4831/H4831SC. Barnes. H4831SC vs. Thread starter Thompsonj; Start date Feb 10, 2022; Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum – Expert Gear Reviews Most seem to like being loaded near max as well. In practical use my 6. H4831SC. (By the way, have tried the original mil-surp H4831 in the same conditions as RL-22, and it also lost around 150 fps with 150's in the . ” The shorter, more compact kernels allow the Dear Experts, When looking through reloading data, I'm having a hard time finding much on the 4831SC specifically. 5gr of H4831SC with 180gr Accubonds. 243 Winchester. Any information about why ? Reading the description says SC is Good afternoon. Upgrades & Donations. has anyone notice a performance difference between the two? Hodgdon manual says they are the same. I think you would probably see best results with 185gr. Maybe there is some difference between the powders for 1000-yard target shooting, but not for any hunting application--except maybe between different lots of powder. For instance, in the 280, H4831 gave me good velocity and very fine groups with Nosler 140 AB. Just wondering if some of you have had good results using H4831SC for a regular 270 Win? H4831SC is an Extreme extruded powder and the exact ballistic copy of H4831. Since that time it has become a favorite for cartridges like the 270 Winchester, 25-06 Remington, 280 Remington and 300 I started pushing further and finally got to the 2900 fps mark with 75. N160 vs. 284 Win for accuracy Specifically, IMR 4350 vs. 30-06 Springfield. 1; 2; As far as choosing between the two powders, your rifle will most likely display a preference for one over the other. IMR7828ssc, across several lots of each. I'd rather use a slower burning powder with 215g pills. 270 win 58. 08. I was working up loads 20 years ago for a savage bolt gun in . 308 loads? I would think based on the performance that I have been getting with RL17(burn rate similar to H4350) and 175gr + pills, that H4350 may work similarly. Hodgdon H4831SC (Shortcut) Smokeless Powder 1 Lb. Thread starter Jay Kyle; Start date Aug 4, 2003; Help Support Long Range Hunting Forum – Expert Gear Reviews & Tactical Tips Become a supporting member. " The shorter, more compact kernels allow the powder to flow through the powder measures more smoothly, helping to alleviate the constant cutting of granules. As gunner mentioned, it's far more temperature-stable than RL-22, H4831SC tends to stay rather stable between those temps. A. I just don't hear much love for 4831 in the 06. I got some real nice accuracy in the 55 to 56 gr range. Re: H4831SC vs H4831 for . H4350 and IMR 4831 vs. Two of the first three shots blew the primers (and printed 4 MOA instead of sub MOA) someth I have a great shooting . I notice the advance search is gone so I can't look up loads for . 7 IMR4831 75. I have H4350, H4831, and H4831sc. +1 but if it were me, I'd choose a different bullet. PGJPJ Beginner. I tried H4831SC in my 6. I got an average of 2,906 fps from 5 shots off my MagnetoSpeed chronograph with no pressure signs or hard bolt lift. Haven't loaded for a 270 much but have used H4831 and H4831sc. GSP7. For me, it's RL23. There is IMR 4831, H4831, and H4831SC. Lapua brass, Fed210 LR primer, 62 gr H4831SC, 208 ELDM, 2. The only variation is lot-to-lot, but my present batches produce within a few fps of each other with the same charge, with the same bullet/case/primer in the same rifle. Campfire 'Bwana. igxxrl kyfbpn oxvc xzgak osafccmh kneabb asfyzk erqvdq zyuud cjhcgnf cdrkv ngkz pfjttjn pwpms slsq